While China builds coal-fired power stations at warp speed, Genesis fills its website with laboured apologia and self-hatred for owning one coal-fired station at Huntly. The idea of putting more turbines into Huntly is so inconceivable in this era of green virtue signalling that this strategic imperative lies irretrievably outside the consensus reality.
It is fair comment that producing hydrogen gas from surplus electricity is "inefficient."
It is also axiomatic when hydroelectricity capacity is being wasted (most of the time) and surplus water spilled from dams, that electricity should be used to make gas. We have pipelines in situ. Light bulbs are an inefficient use of electricity but most of us have them.
Treating the hydrogen as a precursor to more useful substances - adding carbon to get methane and then the gas to gasoline process. We have a ready made use and storage infrastructure ready and waiting. If you can pull the required CO2 from the atmosphere you then have a "sustainable" cycle.
Hi Richard, great comment. Yes, the hydrogen produced through electrolysis could be used to create synthetic methane when combined with some form of technology to pull CO2 from the atmosphere and combine in a catalyst.
The key issues here are that this is very experimental technology at this stage and there are a lot of questions about what the development pathway looks like. Secondly, as an energetic proposition this would have a low EROI but if there is a genuine surplus of hydro in successive wet years then possibly at a stretch it could possibly be made viable. One other challenge being that the surplus is in the South Island and gas distribution network is in the North Island. It's an interesting thought exercise none the less.
Hi Winston, good comment. In the event that there is "surplus" hydroelectric capacity there is the potential to use electrolysis to produce hydrogen. The hydrogen may be able to be blended with natural gas in existing pipelines if produced in the North Island. First Gas has done some work on this. One challenge is that due to its tiny molecular size keeping it in carbon steel piping is a challenge. It also requires different burner configurations to fire effectively. It's a possibility but is it scalable and at what cost is the question.
I don’t have an answer to why people like narratives / believe this BS etc, but some people have suggested that “belief” in some kind of a deity is part of our DNA. With the demise and vilification of I guess mainly Christian religion, the religion of “net zero” has taken its place. It seems to me that it’s mainly the Western counties which have a judaeo- Christian heritage that are pursuing net zero aggressively... or were. I hope the worm has turned. Here in Oz it has not yet, IMHO, at least not in latte drinking inner cities.
Thanks Christian this is an interesting line of thought, and I suspect that there is some truth in this. A lot of it has all the hall marks of religion.
Great link thanks. The number of hydrogen project cancellations is getting longer by the day. It amazes me that there are not engineers saying hey, from a thermodynamics perspective this just too inefficient and has too many losses for this to be viable.
I suspect that this is a typo "That CIP is not reluctant to risk its own capital in the Murchison development is indicative of the risk the government has taken on." and should read "is reluctant".
One can get gas from coal via the "Sasol" process which, as I understand the method, involves high temperature pyrolysis of coal to form gas and many other compounds? Established in SA in about 1950 and still going to this day. Involves multi million dollar capital investment but may be another source of "natural" gas?
Hi William, yes this is a derivative of the Fischer-Tropsch process developed by the Germans in WW2 to overcome their military fuel supply constraints. The main issue is that it has very low EROI in the range of 1.5 - 2.5. This would suggest it could be as much as ten times more expensive than natural gas on a per unit of energy basis.
Affordable energy underpins any economy. If we don’t get serious about investment at scale we will drive ourselves out of business.
Well said Stephen!
While China builds coal-fired power stations at warp speed, Genesis fills its website with laboured apologia and self-hatred for owning one coal-fired station at Huntly. The idea of putting more turbines into Huntly is so inconceivable in this era of green virtue signalling that this strategic imperative lies irretrievably outside the consensus reality.
Yes! I have also found this "renewables future" mantra to be insane. Finally someone speaking some sense !
It is fair comment that producing hydrogen gas from surplus electricity is "inefficient."
It is also axiomatic when hydroelectricity capacity is being wasted (most of the time) and surplus water spilled from dams, that electricity should be used to make gas. We have pipelines in situ. Light bulbs are an inefficient use of electricity but most of us have them.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360319921014452
Treating the hydrogen as a precursor to more useful substances - adding carbon to get methane and then the gas to gasoline process. We have a ready made use and storage infrastructure ready and waiting. If you can pull the required CO2 from the atmosphere you then have a "sustainable" cycle.
Hi Richard, great comment. Yes, the hydrogen produced through electrolysis could be used to create synthetic methane when combined with some form of technology to pull CO2 from the atmosphere and combine in a catalyst.
The key issues here are that this is very experimental technology at this stage and there are a lot of questions about what the development pathway looks like. Secondly, as an energetic proposition this would have a low EROI but if there is a genuine surplus of hydro in successive wet years then possibly at a stretch it could possibly be made viable. One other challenge being that the surplus is in the South Island and gas distribution network is in the North Island. It's an interesting thought exercise none the less.
Hi Winston, good comment. In the event that there is "surplus" hydroelectric capacity there is the potential to use electrolysis to produce hydrogen. The hydrogen may be able to be blended with natural gas in existing pipelines if produced in the North Island. First Gas has done some work on this. One challenge is that due to its tiny molecular size keeping it in carbon steel piping is a challenge. It also requires different burner configurations to fire effectively. It's a possibility but is it scalable and at what cost is the question.
I don’t have an answer to why people like narratives / believe this BS etc, but some people have suggested that “belief” in some kind of a deity is part of our DNA. With the demise and vilification of I guess mainly Christian religion, the religion of “net zero” has taken its place. It seems to me that it’s mainly the Western counties which have a judaeo- Christian heritage that are pursuing net zero aggressively... or were. I hope the worm has turned. Here in Oz it has not yet, IMHO, at least not in latte drinking inner cities.
Thanks Christian this is an interesting line of thought, and I suspect that there is some truth in this. A lot of it has all the hall marks of religion.
Case in point:
https://open.substack.com/pub/nickcater/p/bowens-multi-billion-dollar-fantasy?r=9wy0f&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
And my taxes pay for this grift.
Great link thanks. The number of hydrogen project cancellations is getting longer by the day. It amazes me that there are not engineers saying hey, from a thermodynamics perspective this just too inefficient and has too many losses for this to be viable.
I suspect that this is a typo "That CIP is not reluctant to risk its own capital in the Murchison development is indicative of the risk the government has taken on." and should read "is reluctant".
One can get gas from coal via the "Sasol" process which, as I understand the method, involves high temperature pyrolysis of coal to form gas and many other compounds? Established in SA in about 1950 and still going to this day. Involves multi million dollar capital investment but may be another source of "natural" gas?
Hi William, yes this is a derivative of the Fischer-Tropsch process developed by the Germans in WW2 to overcome their military fuel supply constraints. The main issue is that it has very low EROI in the range of 1.5 - 2.5. This would suggest it could be as much as ten times more expensive than natural gas on a per unit of energy basis.
Ouch!
ENA is the Electricity Networks Association, https://www.electricitynetworksassociation.org.nz/
Thanks Alan when on their website looking at their logo I assumed they had rebranded.
"I am not sure what the biological roots of this phenomenon are..." - this might help.
https://substack.com/@thepoisonedkiwi/note/c-103379652
Thank you, very interesting.